http://www.pbs.org/search/newshour/redir/http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/asia/july-dec07/pakistan_11-21.html
Margaret Warner speaks with Geo Television President Imran Aslam
about Pakistan's recent curbs on the independent media, imposed
when Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf declared a state of emergency
Nov. 3, and what they may mean for the country as a whole.
MARGARET
WARNER: Imran, let's start with November 3rd. What happened, and
what impact did it have on you?
IMRAN ASLAM: It was a
strange day. We had feelings and premonitions that something was
afoot, and we were reporting as usual as to troop movements, a little
bit of silence in the capital, people getting together to talk about
a possible meeting which might lead to an imposition of emergency.
We had had one force call earlier as you remember, not so forced
because apparently Condoleezza Rice did call up the president and
asked him not to impose emergency the last time, but there were
feelings that maybe he was moving in that direction.
And round about 6 or
6:30, our signals suddenly went off. The signals -- when I say signals,
I basically the cable operators seem to have been lent upon by the
government, and simultaneously all of Pakistan faded to black, and
this was the first indication that, you know, some sort of draconian
measures are going to be used against the media.
Subsequently we learned
about the new PEMRA Ordinance which had some fairly strict measures
that they wanted to impose, things like being able to walk into
our offices, seal them, seize our equipment, arrest journalist,
without any show cause notice and so on and so forth.
The main thing was that
the next day was a cricket match and India and Pakistan cricket
matches tend to be like the World Series. We had got the exclusive
rights to show cricket for Pakistan on one of our channels which
was our sports channel and so the fear was that even this might
be blacked out, and that's exactly what happened.
The other channels that we run in the network, an entertainment
and your youth channel, were also blacked out along with our news
channel, and this has been going on now for the last 16 days. We
have been effectively blacked out of Pakistan and news has become
a contraband item.
Dealing with the shutdown
MARGARET WARNER: So how
did you at first get around?
IMRAN ASLAM: The initial
response obviously was to try and get everything out as much as
possible on the Web and we were fortunate to see that the interest
in what was happening in Pakistan was huge, and our server almost
crashed because people started to move towards the Web. And then
of course the SMSes went out giving people alerts and tickers, if
you like, of exactly what was happening along the way.
We did have the hub in
Dubai which is what we had taken up right from the start of our
channel's inception, basically, and this was Dubai Media City from
where we have operated since the channel started.
MARGARET WARNER: So in
other words, you could still do your satellite transmission from
Dubai which could be seen internationally?
IMRAN ASLAM: That is
correct, and this was a great boost to us because we were able then
to at least tell our people abroad, the diaspora, what was happening
in Pakistan, and also we were able to see the sort of response we
were getting from our viewers abroad. It was very amusing because
we would get phone calls from relatives abroad telling us what was
happening in our own back yard, so this was a bit of an irony.
But in an environment
like this when news does become something that is only available
in the black market, then you will get this kind of stuff, and a
lot of adulteration will also take place. So rumors started to circulate,
speculation was rife about all sorts of things, countercoups and
changes in government which were about to start and so on and so
forth.
We continued with our
broadcast abroad, but the intentions were absolutely clear, for
16 days we had been trying to get our other channels on air which
had nothing to do with politics which are basically, you know, entertainment
channels, and huge amounts of money have obviously been lost on
the cricket rights, huge amounts of money we lost on revenues which
come from advertising for our entertainment. And the fight continues,
I mean, you know, until they eventually did what they did a few
days ago which is get to Dubai and force the Dubai Media City to
take our news channel off the satellite beam.
Financial impacts
MARGARET WARNER: Do you
think the government of Pakistan is trying to cripple you financially
fatally?
IMRAN ASLAM: I think
so. I think the intention is very obvious. This is a punitive measure
that the government seems to have taken against us. All the other
channels are back up and running. We are the only one that is being
singled out. And when I say only one, I mean all the channels that
we have in our network, each one of them has been blacked out. And
the idea is obviously to bring us to our knees and very few people
will have pockets that are infinite. And I think, you know, this
is a morale issue as well for us, but we continue. I mean, there
are the young kids who work here who built this channel and who
constitute in my opinion some of the finest minds in this country,
the graphic designers, the artists, the writers, the hosts, the
anchors, all sorts of people, they came together, and they keep
coming together.
We had a candlelight
vigil last night which was really very inspiring and raised spirits
a great deal. A lot of speeches were made. A lot of people sang
and danced in the streets. And this was what I thought was a great
vision of what Pakistan can be and should be of young people with
hope with the future in front of them with candles in their hands
raising slogans about the media, and about the independence of the
judiciary, about the independence of expression, and about democracy.
MARGARET WARNER: Why
is Geo do you think such a target? There are 60 private channels,
there are a lot of news channel, independent news channels. Why
Geo?
IMRAN ASLAM: Well, it's
a question that we've obviously asked ourselves as well because
I think we need to also reflect upon what could be the reasons,
and I wish I could tell you. Obviously there were lots of mutterings
about, you know, where we had probably overstepped the line. But
what was the line? And that's the question that we've always asked.
The intention was always
as far as we were concerned to open up discourse, to have debates
on issues, and also to push the envelope. As I've said, I pushed
the envelope as much as we can without tearing it. But I think there
are moments in the lives of, you know, rulers when hubris sets in
and this media explosion that you see in Pakistan now was one of
the achievements that General Musharraf used to talk about and very
proudly point to as one of his great, you know, steps that he took.
But it seems like, you
know, he created in his mind a Frankenstein monster and the Frankenstein
monster has come out and starts haunting him and asks questions,
holds people accountable, talks about, you know, steps that have
been taken to cripple the independence of the judiciary or, you
know, steps that will probably push back the democratic process
in the country. So we probably raised those issues, and those issues
probably raised some hackles.
MARGARET WARNER: You
were just talking about the young people you saw last night and
how you thought that it also to you was an expression of what Pakistan
could be. Do you think what the government is trying to do to the
media now is a metaphor for what it's trying to do more broadly?
IMRAN ASLAM: Yes, I think
they've got it wrong, personally. These -- the media, the civil
society, the judiciary, all these people were essentially allies
in a constituency that is against any form of extremism. This was
the middle ground. This was where tolerance was being bred, really,
and was being nourished in a sense.
And I think this was
a very weird thing. It's almost like taking a grenade, and then
I cannot understand how a person could go to this length in destroying
the very constituency that he needs in this very, very difficult
battle that we are facing, with creeping Talibanization up North,
the existence of, you know, al-Qaeda cells around, and also problems
of inflation, problems of, you know, growing pains of transition,
and growing pains of, you know, economic upsurge and lack of a trickle-down
effect that was taking place.
So we needed to have
an independent media and an independent set of people who could,
you know, bolster up his polities. He seems to have gone and, you
know, given us a kick.
MARGARET WARNER: So what
they did Saturday night, pulling the satellite signal from Dubai,
how much worse is that for you?
IMRAN ASLAM: It effectively
shuts us out, that little window that we had at least to some people
outside and the little defiance that we were able to show that we
were not going to be cowed down has not been seen. It's been seen
on the Web, obviously. We've tried to bypass that by going on webcasts
and so on. It's not the same thing.
The television has been
taken away from us for the time being and obviously we have to look
at alternatives and see whether Dubai would be amenable to letting
us come back on air or look for another hub where we can uplink,
because from Pakistan, the question of uplinking just doesn't arise
it seems.
And also we have to look
at possible alternatives because the ban will continue regardless
in Pakistan on the cable networks from showing, you know, what we
want to do. And we are moving towards an election and after the
sad bomb blast on Benazir's rally, we felt that, you know, the normal
ways of electioneering may not be possible in Pakistan and we've
actually believed that the election would be fought on a 28-inch
screen and this would become the arena where, you know, most of
the people would debate issues and hold -- you know, make their
speeches, have the great debates, I think this is all being shut
down which is very sad.
We were making preparations,
we had an election cell ready and going, working on it, to educate
people about the beauty of democracy and how it should be fought.
Everything seems to have been, you know, shot down and it's very
sad because we've built this channel with a lot of love and passion,
I think. We are a proud channel, I think.
Future of the channel
MARGARET WARNER: Do you
think this is the end of this channel?
IMRAN ASLAM: I would
not like to think so because the name of the channel in Urdu means
live. It's Geo, and geo means live, actually, in Urdu. And our slogan
has always been "Geo aur Geenaydo" which actually translates
very simply into "Live and Let Live."
MARGARET WARNER: Now
you've still got all these people working. You're keeping a full
staff?
IMRAN ASLAM: We are keeping
a full staff, and the full staff is keeping us, keeping us happy
and keeping us busy, and we are trying to not only give the impression,
but I think we have this commitment that we will try and stand up
them and as they have stood by us. We cannot afford to lose them
because they are trained people, they have tremendous skill sets,
and they have been trained by some of the finest minds. We've brought
in a group of trainers from, you know, NBC and CNN and everywhere
else and they have trained these kids. And they saw a future for
themselves and they walked into it and I think it is our responsibility
to try and keep them.
But as I said, if we
are killed and murdered financially, obviously then things may not
look as bright for these 2,500 people who are part of the Geo Network.
MARGARET WARNER: And
right now you said it's costing you a million dollars a day?
IMRAN ASLAM: Thereabouts,
about $500,000, you know, on an average. That is not to talk about
what we've suffered in terms of the losses of the cricket which
was a huge amount. It's almost 15 million over there. So we are
in dire straits as far as that is concerned.
MARGARET WARNER: Now,
there are other channels that were shut down, news channels, and
then they were allowed to go back on the air. Why were they allowed
to and Geo now?
IMRAN ASLAM: There are,
as I said, verbally we have been told that there are certain issues
that need to be addressed and some of them involve our main hosts,
our anchors, our reporters, and our broadcast personnel, the faces
of the channel.
MARGARET WARNER: You
mean they want them fired?
IMRAN ASLAM: They want
them fired. And I think this is something that we cannot even think
about. It's blackmail, to be very honest. And I think this channel
has always been supported by these people and they've put their
lives on the line in a lot of cases and it is our duty really to
stand by them.
And I think the decision
by the owners of the channel not to bow down to these kind of requests
was probably what led to, you know, the suspension of our talks
or discussions or whatever.
'Code of conduct'
MARGARET WARNER: How
does this code of conduct that the government was demanding news
channels sign, how does that figure in? I mean, Musharraf I understand
said all the channels that are back on signed this code of conduct.
IMRAN ASLAM: The code
of conduct is, you know, something that we had before as well. What
our argument has always been is you impose this new code of conduct
on the day that you imposed emergency. You switched us off before.
You actually pronounced us guilty before giving us a chance to prove
that we would adhere to the so-called code of conduct.
We have looked at the
code of conduct, and obviously our lawyers are going through it
as well, to look at certain gray areas in there, and some of them
can be very draconian and can be very arbitrary. So we were talking
to them and saying let us try and come up with a code of conduct
that is acceptable to all of us, and it is at this stage even now
that we're looking at it but we haven't signed it because along
with the code has come the other, you know, quiet whispers in our
ears that everything could be all right, provided X, Y, and Z was
done, which includes the sacking of the hosts and anchors and so
on.
MARGARET WARNER: What
is most unacceptable in the code of conduct?
IMRAN ASLAM: It's the
gray areas, as I said, you know, things like what constitutes national
interest, what constitutes fair comment, you know. It has to be
spelt out somehow or the other, and these are very vague things
which can always be used, you know, in the future whenever they
feel like coming in and saying no. And so gray areas develop. Certain
things are just made into sacred cows and we cannot comment on that.
The whole judicial crisis, for instance, could become a no-go area,
discussion on the Red Mosque incident in Islamabad could become
a matter of national interest, you know, what's happening in the
Northern areas and creeping Talibanization would become a strategic,
you know, thing which the press should not know anything about.
So these sort of things do happen and I think that's why we have
to be a little careful about it.
MARGARET WARNER: So bottom
line, what do you think is at stake for Pakistani society here?
IMRAN ASLAM: I think
that Pakistan's civil society has been extremely supportive. They
have come out into rallies, they've come out protesting against
the bans. They are going about it in the -- in the way that they
know best. There are blogs out there. There are, you know, young
kids who are more tech-y than I am. They're doing their stuff, and
they -- I think they're enjoying it also. This is their first real
brush with authoritative rule because they've had a benign dictatorship
for a couple of years and I think now they've seen that the gloves
can come off. They're going to be pushed around and jostled by the
police, they're going to smell tear gas, and you're going to get
some radicalized your kids out there as well.
So with our sort of history
it's not such a bad thing because it gives them a certain amount
of resilience and defiance which is not a bad thing, actually.
MARGARET WARNER: Do you
see in the channels that did sign the code of conduct or that one
maybe shouldn't but one assumes signed this code of conduct, have
you seen a difference in the nature of their coverage?
IMRAN ASLAM: Certain
channels that have come back on air have actually removed some anchors.
AAJ TV, for instance, which is back on air had a very important
show which is called "Live with Talat" and Talat Hussain
used to host that, not on air. "Bolta Pakistan" which
is another hard-hitting program, off the air. So, yes, we have seen
that. The other channels were slightly a little bit more innocuous,
I think. They didn't have to really trim their sails. But AAJ, yes,
certainly I think I've seen a definite shift in -- you know, the
very fact that they've removed these two of their main flagship
programs. It looks like it's happened.
MARGARET WARNER: So what
I was really trying to ask you just as a final question is if this
situation persists, what does Pakistan as a nation lose? I mean,
what is really at stake here?
IMRAN ASLAM: What's at
stake is, you know, this hope that I talked about, of free expression.
It's not just a question of talking about politics, it's a question
about talking about development issues, about the nature of people's
minds. It's about opening up discussions and debate which is, you
know -- and it's also about justice isn't it because democracy is
probably more of an unknown if you ask a person in the wilds of
Rwanda what democracy is he probably won't be able to answer you.
If you talk to people
about justice I think across the board they know what justice is,
they know what injustice is. And so for Pakistan the media was probably
become a little platform where they could at least listen to their
own voices and they could sit back and talk about issues that were
always taboo, were not talked about around the dining table.
And it's a generational
thing. It's also an opening up of minds, and technology helped definitely.
And the media channels I think played that role very effectively
in Pakistan. We went into places that were totally unexplored and
talked about issues that were important to talk about at the end
of the day. So this is the loss eventually in the long-run, the
loss of somewhere for us to assemble and talk to each other.MARGARET
WARNER: Thanks. Good luck.
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